Ep. 95 | The F Word in Vet Med (Part 2): Tools & Mindset Shifts to Ease Money Stress and Overcome Financial Barriers
If you haven't listened to Part 1, check it out here: Ep. 94| The F Word In Vet Med (Part 1): Overcoming Fear Around Finances
In this episode of the Life Boost with Amelia podcast, Dr. Amelia and Dr. Shona Kowtecky tackle the financial challenges that veterinary teams and pet owners face regarding the cost of veterinary care. They delve into practical exercises and activities aimed at helping veterinary professionals feel more comfortable and less stressed when discussing finances. Key topics include the FEARR framework, which stands for Familiarity, Exposure, Accessibility, Relatability, and Reason, and how it can reduce fear and anxiety around financial conversations. The episode also covers personal money memories, valuable team activities to understand costs better, humanizing financial talks, and strategies for enhancing client communication. This comprehensive discussion is a must-listen for veterinary professionals and pet owners looking to navigate the complexities of veterinary care costs more effectively and with less stress.
01:01 The Cost of Veterinary Care
02:16 Understanding the FEARR Framework
03:18 Exercises to Reduce Financial Stress
05:38 Personal Money Memories
10:31 Team Activities for Financial Clarity
15:37 Humanizing Financial Conversations
19:48 Partnering with Clients for Pet Care
31:09 Proactive Financial Planning for Pet Owners
32:17 Understanding the Dental Experience
32:50 Enhancing Client Communication
33:32 Addressing Subconscious Beliefs
35:00 Shifting Mindsets Around Money
36:19 Balancing Care and Costs
38:24 The Value of Veterinary Services
40:41 Visible vs. Invisible Discounts
42:46 Team Conversations on Pricing
45:57 Empowering Financial Conversations
48:00 Practical Steps for Financial Growth
48:47 Resources for Financial Assistance
53:12 Final Thoughts and Reflections
Ways to connect with guest Dr. Shona Kowtecky:
- Email: letsconnect@shonakowtecky.com
- Website: https://www.shonakowtecky.com/
- LinkedIn -- www.linkedin.com/in/shona-kowtecky
- Book -- https://www.shonakowtecky.com/bookstore.html
Blog post: Managing Veterinary Care Costs: A Complete Guide To Payment Options for Pet Owners & Vet Practices
Free masterclass replay: https://www.lifeboost.today/itsnotyou
Transcript:
Welcome to the Life Boost with Amelia podcast where we're changing the narrative around what true health and success look like. They should give you energy, not drain it. I'm your host, Dr. Amelia multi-passionate integrative health and life coach, entrepreneur, and recovered burnout veterinarian. Together, we'll explore the science behind how your brain and body work, including the unconscious mind while also connecting with what your heart needs in order to stand up to the norm of feeling stuck on a hamster wheel-working hard yet feeling exhausted and not where you want to be- and instead live a life that makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning and in love with who you see when you look in the mirror. The reality is if you do what everyone else is doing, you're not going to feel good. Let's break the norm. Hi, friend. I think we can all agree that one of our least favorite parts of veterinary medicine and having a pet is the cost of veterinary care. There are so many big feelings wrapped around finances, and it can be such a source of frustration, anxiety, overwhelm, and division between the veterinary team and pet owners. And yet the reality is that it is a factor. It is a part of veterinary medicine, and it doesn't have to be something that stresses us out and causes division. The more that we talk about it and really explore the specific things that make finances so frustrating for both sides, the more we really can decrease frustration and overwhelm around it and use it as an opportunity to be working together towards a common goal of giving pets the care that they deserve. So this is part two. If you haven't already listened to part one, highly recommend stopping right now, going to listen to episode 94 first, because that really sets the stage and leads up to part two. That's where Dr. Shona Kowtecky and I have a conversation about the factors that do contribute to finances causing so much stress and overwhelm, and what we can do about it. And it's where she shares her FEARR framework, which is such a clever and useful tool for taking anything that is contributing to feeling fearful or overwhelmed and having a nice way to break that down into little pieces, to look for opportunities to decrease fear around it. And so FEARR is actually F-E-A-R-R, and it stands for familiarity, exposure, accessibility, relatability, and reason. Again, she dives into it in episode 94, but the idea is that by increasing those things around something that is causing fear, it actually decreases the fear that we experience around them, and it's such a helpful, easy thing to remember. In this episode we dive into specific exercises and things that you can start doing either individually or that veterinary practices can be doing together as a team in order to feel more comfortable and less stressed when it comes to finances and so that you can be having much more effective conversations with pet owners. And if you're a pet owner, this is also going to help you to have a better understanding of the factors contributing to the cost of veterinary care and what you can do about it. And to supplement these episodes, I created a blog post that is a comprehensive guide of all of the payment options available to pet owners and veterinary practices, because one of the most stressful, frustrating things is when we feel stuck and we don't feel like there are options and the pet isn't able to get the care that they need. There really is such a huge spectrum available now in terms of payment and financing options, and I just this past year really became aware of just how much is available and so I wanted it to be easy to access that, so you can find this guide on my website, https://www.lifeboost.today. It's called Managing Veterinary Care Costs a Complete Guide to Payment Options for Pet Owners and Vet Practices, and I'll also leave the link in the show notes. That's enough for me. Let's dive into this episode.
amelia:
So I'm thinking we can go over a few examples and really put that into practice into practice. So one that I can think of is the veterinarian or vet staff who are feeling so frustrated with clients and they're finding all of these conversations, like they feel like maybe they go in and go over an estimate and the client is just frustrating or complaining that of the expenses and they just are like
Dr. Shona:
Mm-hmm.
amelia:
over it.. where would you recommend that they start or what are some things they can do to put these into practice?
Dr. Shona:
One of the things, and it's an activity I, I've, I've done with myself and with others that I really love. And you can do it for yourself. Actually, you should do it for yourself. You can also do it in a team setting as well, but whether you actually close your eyes for this or not. But you know, if you close your eyes and think back to what is your first memory that you have related or about money
amelia:
Mm
Dr. Shona:
and, you know, give it some time. Think about it for a little bit, but you know, there something will probably pop up. And so with that memory in mind, how do you think that has influenced the way that you talk about money? Think about money, feel about money, behave around money, make decisions around money. The next layer of that is, okay. Now, what's your first memory that you have about money or finances in veterinary medicine? And again, you probably know where I'm going with this, but how do you think that has influenced the way that you think, talk, feel, behave, make decisions around money? These memories aren't necessarily when you are a vet professional? I'll say for myself, you know, the two memories that that come to mind for me, my first memory of, of money was growing up, I knew that Thursdays were grocery day because Thursdays were when my dad got paid. And I was lucky enough to grow up in a house where it's never that we were without food, but there was definitely stress and conversations around financial stress that my parents had, that I totally absorbed. And so that has created a certain level of like scarcity mindset and oh, there's never enough. Vet med, my first memory of money was when I, I was probably 10, maybe a little bit older. And our dog, uh, Buster was like a shepherdy kind of mix. He had horrible breath and he, he, like, we, we knew he'd had horrible breath and we would like, oh, that's terrible. And then eventually we found out it's'cause he had incredibly severe periodontal disease and he needed a full mouth, well not full mouth extractions, but he needed a cleaning and a lot of extractions. And at that time, this is, you know, many years ago it was about$700 and that, I mean, that's still a lot of money, but back then it was like, again, it was a holy shit. It was a ton of money. And that was really hard'cause our family loved Buster and wanted to take care of him. And yet there was panicked, there was fear around how are we gonna make this work? And that influenced me when I then started to work in VetMed because it made it a little bit easier for me to empathize with those clients who were afraid of or stressed about money. It made it harder for me to sympathize or understand the business side of things, right? It doesn't have to be either or. So I love that exercise as a starting point because it's very unique to you and that's your starting point, and that gives you a lot of very specific data that's unique and relevant to you and will influence kind of what you need to do next. So that's, that's one definite starting point that I, I love doing.
amelia:
I love that. And just to add, like, that makes me think a lot of inner child work, which I love. I don't know if you've explored that
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
but, um, like I do hypnosis and stuff. And so there's a lot of fun things you can do, but even for anyone listening, like even just you were saying, just kinda like getting into a relaxed state, closing your eyes, revisiting that memory, you can really play with it as well. And like imagine watching yourself, maybe it's like on a old black and white movie screen, but that
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
and if that brought up feelings that were uncomfortable, you can actually, like maybe you're reparenting or maybe there was a resource you need, or you go back to being under-resourced with overwhelm. Like you can go back and play with that memory and, and help to heal from that so that it feels better and it really is incredible what a positive ripple effect that can have in changing the way you have been feeling for so long about
Dr. Shona:
Well, and that's, that's a really important thing that you just said because it's not to say that the way we're feeling is wrong, right? It's not to say that we have to do a complete 180. It's just, again, it's, it's kind of breaking out of that autopilot or the, like, going through the motions and taking ownership of, okay, this is a mindset I have had. Is it helping or hindering me at least right now, in this moment? And is it something that I want to just kind of let continue, you know, calling the shots and, and, you know, pulling the marionette strings that I'm not aware of, or do I wanna take control of it or work with it? And so I, I love that.'cause it's not to say that it's wrong, it's just that it does have an influence. And so, so that's definitely one, and again, you can do that as a team. You can do that just for your yourself. Um, the next thing that I love looking at, and this can be a group activity with the team, is talking about, you know, first of all, understanding, getting a little bit familiar with, with, with money and, and, uh, if you have any particular concerns or questions or strong feelings about something going to someone who, again, whether it's a manager or a practice owner or someone outside of, maybe your direct practice, but someone within the profession who can, can offer, um, informed advice about it. Kinda say, Hey, I recognize that I have a strong feeling about this. I also recognize I might not have all of the information. I'm asking this because I want to understand so that, you know, I can be more confident or be more, you know, relaxed when this comes up, can you help me to understand, you know, how, for example, like how, how do we make decisions about what something. It costs at our clinic, or can you help me understand why this costs so much? And it might be that it's like we find out that, oh, the cost to our clinic is actually huge. This thing I thought we were just, overcharging, but when I realized it actually costs our practice$300 to even just bring it into the building, right? Then that might change how I enter into a conversation. And so that leads to this concept of perception of value. And I think it's a really important, thing that we often forget, which is that just because we can do something quickly or easily, or we do it every day in VetMed, it doesn't mean that it should be free, right? It's the reason it's quick or easy, or we do it every day is because. We have education and knowledge and training, and we've taken continuing education courses. We have years of experience. We have systems in place, we have equipment, we have facility, we have our team. All of those things are previous investments. And so one of the activities I love to do as a team is if we think about one, you know, let's say it's like a, a one procedure or, or something that we do, let's say it's a blood test, right?
amelia:
Yeah,
Dr. Shona:
Think about kind of go through the motions and asking yourself the questions. Okay, how many people are involved from the very beginning to the very end of the process for this blood tests. Right, right. The CSR from scheduling the appointment, all the way through like the vet assistants who help restrain and, people who of course are actually doing the blood collection, the courier who picks up the blood sample to take it to the lab, the outside lab, the DVM, who's interpreting the results and, and calling and, and the time that goes into recording those values in the medical record. The, the person who's cleaning up, you know, from the actual blood collection, how many people are involved from beginning to end, how long does the entire process take, including the planning, the cleaning, the follow up. What special equipment is used that wouldn't be available, you know, outside of a vet practice, what other investments have been made to allow you to actually do this thing? What supplies and materials are used? How many years of experience in education and training? Was required for each person involved in the task to be able to perform their tasks. So that might be the, the DVM, the RVT, the, again, everyone think of all the years of school, all the years of training, the experience. And then again, what's the reason that we're doing this procedure or, or doing this product, product or, you know, recommending this thing. What's the actual value to the patient, to the client, to our team. If we can talk about those things and understand them as a team, our ability to perceive the value will then absolutely directly boost our ability to articulate that to a client, to be able to explain, yeah, it is expensive, you know, and or there is a, there is a cost attached and this is why, this is all the stuff that you might not realize goes into it. And, and that leads me to another thing, which is on that note, making sure that every person on the team has the opportunity to see what is actually involved with the thing
amelia:
so important
Dr. Shona:
Right? I think of a lot of VAs or, or, um, CSRs who maybe have never actually spent time in the treatment room or watched surgery, right? And they think a spay is a spay, but when they realize that, oh, a spay is an ovariohysterectomy, right? Like, you know what, what do you mean that's a, that's like, they don't necessarily realize those are the two things, but that sounds so big and official and it's like, yeah, it's the same procedure that we talk about. So I think that a really big piece,'cause again, that increases our ability to understand it and hopefully also to feel a bit more confident entering into it. One last thing I'll say quickly, which is really important, is to not be afraid to humanize the conversation. What I mean by that is we often come in, and I've had this conversation with a lot of vet professionals, especially newer grads, where when we're talking and they'll say, oh, I just, you know, I, I like, I, I struggle with these conversations because I give them the quote or I go over the estimate and, I have to be professional. And so it's like, yep, this is what it is. And it's like, what does the client see? What do they actually, what's your body language? What's your tone of voice? What's your facial expression telling them? If you feel awkward, you are looking awkward. Right? And they're kind of like, again, I don't really know how to respond to that, so
amelia:
Right.
Dr. Shona:
totally okay. I wouldn't jump to this right off the bat. Remind yourself they're allowed, their feeling, their response. And it's also okay. Don't, don't again make an assumption that they're immediately gonna panic.'cause sometimes. Again, we're also allowed our own thoughts. So like if you think of going to the mechanic and you're expecting$200 and all of a sudden they're like, okay, it's gonna be$2000. You were at that moment of like, oh my God wasn't, okay, sucks. Wasn't planning for it. It doesn't mean that you're like, this mechanic's an asshole, right? Or it doesn't mean that you're like, I'm not doing it. It just might mean that you have that momentary reaction and you're like, okay, how am I gonna make this work? And you might need to think about it. Clients aren't allowed that moment as well, but we often take it personally and think that it's on us. So pausing and being like, okay, they're allowed that moment and then humanizing it. And if they do say, I like, I can't afford that, or, oh my goodness, that's so much money. Or if they start to to get emotional in the sense that they're worried or they're upset, you can say things like, Hey, I just wanna say like. I know it sucks. I wish, I wish we could do this for free. I do. I wish that money wasn't part of how we make decisions. It is. And so take a moment, like, do you need to, do you need me to step outside? If you wanna take, what can I do right now to give you some more clarity around what this involves, what our options are, but give them permission normalize to have their reaction. When you say, Hey, it's okay that you're feeling this way. I know what it's like to be in your shoes, right? I wish we didn't have to worry about this. And we do. You know, that helps them feel a little bit safer. And then you can have a further conversation about what comes next.
amelia:
Yeah. I love that. Uh, all, everything that you've shared, and I think that is so important. And that goes back to, again, that nervous system perspective of noticing, okay, that person is in the fight stress response, and that is just because of their internal experience that something about that is just feeling overwhelming or stressful or threatening. And, and I think that helps like that pause
Dr. Shona:
Yeah,
amelia:
and just noticing that that's their experience and it's not personal on us. Just as you said, just those simple things of like acknowledging, because it does suck for both of us, right? Like we're actually in the same boat. Like neither of us want that situation
Dr. Shona:
we just want to help the pet!.
amelia:
I think. Completely. Yeah. And so I think just in those ways that you described of acknowledging like, yeah, that's, that makes sense that you're feeling that way is such a, a powerful way of taking a, a moment. That could mean creating a divide
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
and frustration for both. And actually just meeting, connecting as two humans who actually care about the same thing. And then being able to, establish that at least respect, maybe even strengthen some trust and then be like, okay, now what are we gonna do about it? Like, how, what spectrum of care can we offer? What are the next steps?
Dr. Shona:
Well, and that speaks to a really important mindset piece, which is that it's not us versus them. Right. We, we have to, and we get to partner with the clients to take care of the pet. And that's, that is a fact. That's not even like, oh, it would be nice. It's like, no, that's an actual fact. Like at the end of the day, we can make our recommendations, we can, you know, do the surgery or, or do the diagnostics and dispense all the medication, prescribe it all, but they're the ones that actually take what we recommend and, and then live it. And, and so how can we work with them instead of against them and remembering that we're partners in this. It's a big piece of the, the puzzle. And, one of the things that I, even for a pet parent too, that I often think can be very helpful, and I love it.'cause,'cause you know, you'll, people will say, you'll talk about, oh, okay, this is what we, this is ideally what we need to do. And then they'll say, okay, I, I hate that I have to bring this up, but how much is this gonna cost? Right. Or, or, you know, this is all, I only have$500. I love it when, when clients say that, where I'm like, okay, that's very helpful because you know, then I'm not gonna waste 10 minutes talking about this thing that's gonna cost us$1,500. Not today. I'm gonna mention it. It's my due diligence. It's my professional responsibility to let you know that that exists, but I'm not gonna spend all my time focusing there. So let's talk about what we can do with$500. And I'm gonna be really honest with you about, it might be that in the absence of certain diagnostics, I have to make an educated guess. So I just wanna make sure that you understand that and you know that I'm gonna use my years of experience and training and education and pattern detection to make an informed, educated guess. But it's still a guess. So as long as we're on the same page about that, then our next step or our options are X, Y, Z. And again, the, the number of clients who are like, I get it. And, and it, it has it completely. I don't wanna say completely, but it, it really decreases conflict because we're talking then also about expectations, right? I can't guarantee anything in medicine'cause it's biology, but getting comfortable saying, okay, if we don't do this, then this is what it means. Right? And, and, and that's where a big piece too, is really thinking about what's my body language? What's my tone of voice? What's my facial expression? Am I coming into this conversation defensive or looking for a fight or prepared for them to say no? And so I have to convince them or am I coming into it looking to partner and curious. Right. Curious about what this means for them right now.
amelia:
Yeah. Yes. I love that. And that self-awareness is so huge, right? And that can even be like the, if you're starting to tune into and notice, okay, I'm about to walk into this conversation and I'm already kind of in a defensive
Dr. Shona:
Yeah,
amelia:
mode, like that's a great opportunity to start rewiring your brain, teaching your nervous system something new, and using some anti-anxiety tool. And, and even doing something like Havening where it's just like rubbing your shoulders or your arms or like touching your cheeks, like that is such a powerful way to actually change that whole brain pattern that your, brain had. And so yeah, you just take a moment and that can be the difference between walking in and having your body language being like, okay, I'm about to be in defense mode versus in that parasympathetic safe and social mode that like helps to send that, those messages of safety to the person we're interacting with.
Dr. Shona:
Totally. There's two things I'd love to say quickly in response to that. One is that it's the importance of the pause. There are truthfully, in the grand scheme of things, there are very, very few situations in VetMed where we need to make a decision immediately where it's like, you know, true life and death. Like those things, they happen absolutely, but they don't happen nearly as often as we think that they do. And so again, when it comes to money, stress, or conversations around money, even letting people know where, like let's say for example, we're recommending a COHAT, so a dental procedure, right? And, and we present it, we explain why it's important for the pet, what's involved. Hopefully we're doing that'cause that is really important. We wanna help people understand what's, what's involved. But you know, not then expecting or demanding someone make a decision right in that moment. It's okay to say, listen, I realize you might have some questions. You might need to talk to a partner or someone at home about this. Why don't you take this, give it some thought. We will check in in a couple of days. I wanna know what questions you have or if we can clarify anything, right? And, and sometimes a dental or a COHAT's a great, um, example of, we might have to save up for it. It's not a super fun thing to save up. It's not like a vacation. But what can we, again, do planning ahead wise? And so we don't always have to be like, oh, they didn't say yes in that moment, therefore it's a no. And we just immediately walk away and give up on that situation. It's like, okay, let's pause. Let's take some time to think about it. The other thing, which you alluded to, and I, I, um, one of my, my favorite, uh, tricks that I, I do in any situation, and honestly, it has revolutionized how I interact with people and myself. Um, I, I am a, a fear free certified veterinarian. And so part of that is, you know, in addition to all of the physical parameters that we're assessing when we walk into the exam room and, and you know, what goes in the medical record, that exam, right? All those things that we can see and feel and hear part of that is also considering the, emotional wellbeing or, status of that patient because it directly influences all the physical parameters, right? So for example, the, if they are a high level of fear, anxiety, stress, so FAS right? I'm saying this'cause I know there's some people who might not be familiar with it.
amelia:
Yeah.
Dr. Shona:
they're a high FAS, then I'm probably going to find a fast heart rate, right? I might even potentially find that they're panting, and it doesn't mean that they're hyperventilating or struggling to breathe it very well might be a stress response. So it changes how I interpret certain physical findings. My trick or the thing that I love to do, um, is ask myself, what's my FAS score right now before I'm about to do something? And then remembering, because in, in with Fear Free, when we are identifying a patient as like a high FAS, so it's out a five if they're are four or five, instead of saying they're a bad dog or they're a mean cat, right? Or you can't trust them, it changes how we understand them. When we say, oh, their fear, anxiety, stress is so high that it's resulting in these particular behaviors. We label the behavior instead of the pet, and I love that. To apply it to people as well. Because if we can often kind of, again, get outta that narrative where it's like, this person's a jerk, or, you know, they're, they're mean, or they're, you know, they're so rude all the time. It's like, maybe they're just high FAS because
amelia:
They could be, yeah!
Dr. Shona:
I grew up in so many different ways. And so
amelia:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Shona:
it doesn't mean that I have to know exactly what they're feeling. It changes how I interpret their actions. So instead of taking it personally, oh, this person's a jerk, or, oh, this person's judging me, it's like, oh, maybe their FAS is so high that they're not regulated and so they're lashing out this way, but it's their nervous system that they're not able to regulate right now. So what can I do to try and ease that, right? To try and meet them where they are, to make it safer? And it's fascinating. It completely changes the tone of the conversation when we can acknowledge that level in ourselves and others and be like, okay. To your point, I realize I'm at like an FAS four to five going into this conversation. Maybe I need to pause and take a moment before I actually go charging in.
amelia:
Yeah. it truly is a game changer and it really, that pause can be the difference between speaking to the amygdala or having our amygdala that like survival, impulsive part of our brain, running the show versus having the prefrontal cortex that is able to think logically and reasonably and thinking through how we wanna be having those conversations. And so I think that is important, like you said, to think like, just because the initial reaction from a client is like, no, whoa, that's a lot in terms of the, uh, like a dental estimate
Dr. Shona:
Yeah. Okay.
amelia:
Thinking like that's probably their amygdala speaking. That was something that was unexpected. That's a lot. And then following up with them after a few days when they are probably, they've had time to process, they're at home in an environment where they're comfortable. Their brain, like a different part of their brain is going to be talking. And so I think that is important to acknowledge so that we aren't missing out and just dismissing owners as like their initial reaction just believing that that's how it's going to be. When maybe there is just more education or more time or like coming up with a plan that needs to happen.
Dr. Shona:
Maybe we needed to have some time to collect the facts, right. To actually crunch some numbers. Right. Or to be a little bit flexible in terms of like, okay, I need to, you know, rethink how I budgeted this month, or you know, whatever. It's like, again, focusing, we wanna make that shift from. Financial conversations being fear-based and fixed and kind of fiction or fill in the blanks. We want them to be more feelings informed, flexible, and then absolutely kind of that, that other component of like fact-based and, and full stories as much as possible. So, we need to do that for ourselves and we need to extend that same courtesy too to others we're talking with as well.
amelia:
Absolutely. Yeah, it's that curiosity and even I think learning, like how do they absorb information or how do they even understand the value, right? Like are they visual would seeing a video of what's involved in the dental procedure help versus do they wanna resource where they can go read, maybe it's like veterinary partners or something
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
Um, I think that can be helpful of just like, okay, can you share a little bit of what about this is feeling overwhelming or not doable? Is there anything we can be doing to help you?
Dr. Shona:
I am so glad you brought that up because it makes me think too, as much as, you know when we were talking about the FEARR strategy, right? It's doing all those things for ourselves, but it's also what can we do to again, increase the, the FEARR, familiarity, exposure, accessibility, relatability, the reason for the client or for the pet parent. And I love that. Like we often, you know, we just know that, yep, certain blood tests costs several hundred dollars, right? And certain medications cost this much. That's our normal, we see that every day. So we don't have that sticker shock or We don't have that like again, that holy shit moment. So what can we do to prepare pet owners in advance? You know, if, if and when possible letting them know, okay, you have a Frenchie. Let's talk about some of the realities of what this breed might experience. And some, obviously we can't predict it. I, I don't have a crystal ball, but let's talk about some of the potential costs that you might run into, even if everything is as ideal as possible. Let's talk about it proactively. And then I love the visual idea, whether it's a video or, uh, back in the day, I know, some clinics made like a picture book. And when I say picture, like, not like a coloring book, although you could do that, but of, of every step of a, a dental procedure or a certain, you know, again, maybe it's a spay or whatever it might be, every kind of step along the way, they took pictures of their team doing it. Uh, they also showed the before and after of a, a dirty mouth versus a clean mouth. Um, and, and then they would give that, it was a professionally made photo book and they would give it to the clients and it was like, Hey, you can look through this and you can see what's involved. And it's amazing'cause a dental's a great example. When people think of dental, they're like, oh, I go to my dentist and I sit down and I watch tv. You know, while my dental hygienist is cleaning my mouth, I sit there for an hour and then I leave. Their frame of reference is not the same as ours. So what can we do to bridge that gap and increase their awareness of what's involved to help them understand.
amelia:
Absolutely. Like all about increasing that perceived value
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
too, right? And helping them to absorb it. And I think that could be even a question to be asking when you are getting a new client or even just taking a moment to understand like, Hey, how do you absorb information best? Like, are you visual? Like maybe they don't know. But I think having that kind of thing, like even in a chart can be so helpful.
Dr. Shona:
Yeah. And that's where having different, like a couple of different resources to be able to provide clients.'cause even if they don't know, it's like, okay, you can choose, right? We've got a video, we've got a book, we've got an email, we've got a blog. Like, you know, or, or I can send you this resource. What would you like, what would help you? What would make this, uh, what would, what would be beneficial to you? I think those, those are really important things. And, and one other thing, one final thing I'll, I'll say quickly too, is that when we think about all of those, again, those subconscious kind of beliefs and motivations that have influenced how we talk and feel and behave and communicate around money. Again, I, I wanna point out in like the most, you know, supportive friend way possible, these are all about you. We love to take these things and immediately apply them to the other person or to our boss or to whatever. But they say a lot about you. And so
amelia:
mm.
Dr. Shona:
it's, again, it's not to say that that's wrong, but that's kind of the fun part of like, okay, where are the things that you might need to gain a little bit of confidence in? And I know for myself part of that, because I, I had that scarcity mindset. I still do. Like, let's be very clear, that is still my default,
amelia:
Yeah, sure.
Dr. Shona:
and because there's that like more of a tendency to be like, oh, I can imagine how that, how stressed that client must be feeling about. About the cost or about this, you know, this treatment plan, this estimate
amelia:
Yeah.
Dr. Shona:
that, that influenced how I thought about myself, my own value. Am I the good guy or the bad guy, right? I kind of called myself, I didn't realize I was doing it, but I was the bad guy in the story.'cause I was the one coming in and saying, Hey, this, this procedure is gonna cost$1,500 or this is what it's gonna cost. So if I can shift that mindset or recognize that mindset and then recognize that there's so much in between, it's not one or the other, right? It's okay, this is, I, I now like to think about money and, and it's, it's numbers. So it's a neutral data point. We can still have feelings about it. We are going to have feelings about it, but my job now is okay, as a vet professional, my job is to present the numbers, to explain what's involved, what's included. Why it costs this much, why I'm recommending it. That's actually one of the most important things.
amelia:
Mm,
Dr. Shona:
And that's one thing I would say to any team member. When you are going through an estimate, make sure you can communicate and you understand why, why it's necessary, why it's, what's the reason we're doing it. Because if you can't, you are very understandably going to have a lot of fear around that uncertainty of, I don't even know how to explain this properly. So that's something where it's like, okay, maybe a resource I need is more understanding or the ability to, to articulate that value differently. So understanding that is a big piece of it.
amelia:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to highlight like caring and making money, they're not mutually exclusive. And sometimes there is that belief in VetMed, and I think that even goes to that self-awareness of noticing how your reaction is and the stories that you have when it comes to talking about pricing with owners or like feeling like you should discount, or feeling bad for how much it costs. And also like full circle remembering like, okay. How do you wanna be showing up to work every day? And it is important that you feel comfortable, like you have worked really hard to get to where you are and it's okay to be having and wanting a comfortable lifestyle so that you can show up and be an energized, fulfilled vet instead of living in that scarcity, self-sacrificing place of constantly giving another, really tuning into what you need.
Dr. Shona:
It's not sustainable, right? What you just described where you're like constantly sacrificing your own needs or security or that of the business too. Right. It's like if I'm constantly discounting or doing things for free, it comes from like the best of intentions most, most of the time. Otherwise, that could be theft. Hopefully that's not the case, but it's usually because like we have the best of intentions, but what are we, where is that money coming from if it's coming out of the practice? If, and, and to be clear,'cause you mentioned like as a vet, as a vet, if I'm discounting something or doing something for free, considering that that is taking money away from the business, which might then influence the CSR, the support team, the raises that are possible for them, it's not just about you. Right. It's absolutely, we all deserve to be fairly paid and there's a lot of conversation around what that looks like now, which is really important. And another part of that conversation is where does that money come from? Right? I think that's, we're having those conversations as a team, that transparency, you know, what are our, what are the values? What's the brand of our practice? You know, there's also gonna be a very different price point between. Let's say a high volume, you know, vaccine clinic where it's like you're in and out in five minutes, you know, some, a tech or a doctor does a quick TPR, you get the injection and then you're out the door. Versus a clinic where you have a high, a high touchpoint, maybe the exam is 30 minutes, maybe it's 40 minutes, maybe it's even longer. And you have, like, you have, you have time with a doctor or a technician or an exam room, like an assistant and, and you have time one-on-one time with them to ask them questions and to work with their expertise to get a customized and tailored, you know, uh, treatment plan or recommendations from these experts specific to you and your pet. There's huge value in that. And so that cost of those exams should be different, right? Those consultations should be different. And so I think for pet parents, I would love for them to consider too that it might not be the first thing you think about, but not every clinic is the exact same. There are huge differences between, between practices in, in both the services that they offer, the equipment that they have, the things that are possible, but also how they do things. And, you know, getting to, to know what type of clinic you're at and also what type of service you're hoping for. Um, and, and talking about that and, and, being comfortable or, or getting comfortable, about your own needs and requirements around, okay. I, I might have to save up for this, right? So can you give me information in advance? Like, again, it's about how do we collaborate, how do we work well together?
amelia:
Yeah. definitely. Yeah. That is so important, like as a pet owner to think about, okay, what is most important? Is it just like the least expensive or do I want that level of care and time with the, the veterinarian and the support staff and you know, more involved monitoring during surgeries and having some understanding of what that package deal is in order to get that. And with the discounts, I was just attending a lecture recently. I remember who gave it, but they were talking about I don't remember the wording they used, but it was basically like visible versus invisible discounts and really starting to keep track of making sure that most of them are visible discounts that when you are wanting to give someone, maybe it's like dental month and there's a discount, then you're at least able to be keeping track of that versus the invisible ones is like, when you're like, Ooh, I kind of wanna take another X-ray view, even though I feel bad, I don't wanna charge them, but like, I just want it for me. Or maybe you're going through three catheters or like starting to keep track of all of that. That way. Going back to what you said, because that's all influencing what like the CSR is making and, and if you're able to get new equipment
Dr. Shona:
Mm-hmm.
amelia:
at least. purposeful and really documenting, like, how much are you actually discounting so that you're making sure those discounts are going to the right places and being used in a way that's, that, that feels good to the team
Dr. Shona:
Well, and it's about remembering too. You know, again, sometimes like check yourself, okay, why am I discounting this? Is it because I'm like, oh, it takes two seconds. Right. Like a perfect example is like a cystocentesis. So urine in collection, whether it's ultrasound guided, if you have an ultrasound or, or a blind cysto where you do it based on feel, you know, an experienced doctor or or technician can usually do that in a matter of like, you know, sometimes less than 30 seconds, but how many thousands of dollars went into tuition? How many years went into studying? How many years went into training and experience for, for both the RVT and, and the doctor? How many people are holding that, you know, that restraining that patient safely? What equipment is being used right now? And, and so sometimes thinking about that too, and that's where those questions can be really helpful. Thinking about what's involved right now in this thing, even though I wanna say that it's only. Oh, it only took me 30 seconds. Um, that's a big piece of it. And then, uh, the other thing too is as a team, if there is something that you find that you are consistently discounting or wanting to discount, maybe that's worth having a conversation with. Again, your manager or practice owner or whomever you, you can to say, Hey, I recognize that all of us, we feel uncomfortable charging for this in these scenarios. I'm wondering, because that's like our own mental thing, can we build that price into something else so that we know that it's still getting covered? But mentally, for us, again, we're removing, we're minimizing that barrier. We're making it a little bit easier for us to do the thing. You know, a really simple example that a lot of us can relate to is maybe doing a nail trim, you know, for a patient that's going to be sedated or, or anesthetized, right? We're like so much easier for us to do it because they're not wiggling and moving, but we're still doing it. It still takes time, still takes training, but we feel bad charging for it. So maybe we can build it into, you know, it's part of the anesthetic or the sedation charge or that type of thing. Having those conversations around how we can do that. And then also recognizing that if there's something as a team that we want, whether it's a new piece of equipment or, maybe it's something bigger, like, hey, we really, we want to reno the lunchroom. You know, that type of thing. Whatever it might be. Having that conversation where it's like, okay, let's get really specific. Let's, let's use facts. Let's talk about numbers. If this new Doppler right, or this new, you know, whatever it might be, a new surgery light. It costs X amount of dollars, how many extra spays do we have to do in a month or how many extra, um, whatever it might be, procedures or, or what, like tying it to something that, that we do, instead of saying, we need to make this much money, it's like knowing that the actual profit that comes from a particular procedure is not what the charge is, right? So again, it goes back to that example, something we might charge a thousand dollars, but that only means 160,$165 of profit for the practice. So with that in mind, how many, again, spays or what coming to mind right now, how many spays do we have to do to, to find the money for this new item? Turning it into that type of conversation can make it a lot more practical and tangible and then more possible, and then we can measure it and we get excited about working towards, towards those things. And we are empowered to like, Hey, what's our role in this?'cause that's the other big thing is remembering as team members, everything we do influences the health of the business too. And that's meant to be empowering. It's not meant to be like a criticism, or, or again, like a, like, oh my God, it's my responsibility. We're just part of that system.
amelia:
Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. And this time has flown by, so I want to wrap it up. But it's been so good and I think this is a great note to end on because this really, I think like the whole message here is that this can be so empowering. Like if you are feeling stressed out or stuck when it comes to finances.
Dr. Shona:
Maybe you're feeling frustrated about compensation at work or you're feeling frustrated with pet owners. Like it, it feels so crappy to want other people to be changing. And I think the real thing is like change does start with focusing on you and starting to increase that self-awareness and observing what are those memories that you had a long time ago that may be influencing, when are you in a stress response going into certain scenarios and what needs to happen? And even just starting to talk about it, right? It's like when you have that awareness, you can be having those conversations, either acknowledging how the pet parent is feeling, or maybe bringing it up with your boss or the team of like, Hey, I noticed that I'm feeling Yeah.
amelia:
uncomfortable this specific thing. And what can we do about that? What needs to change? Hopefully everyone is leaving with at least one thing that you can do starting today to be making these conversations in and outside of work, in and outside of vet med feel a lot less heavy and stressful.
Dr. Shona:
And it takes time. I also, speaking of time, I am this, this flew by. Thank you. Our conversation. And, and that, you know, it also goes about setting realistic expectations. Don't expect that like tomorrow you're like, I'm gonna magically feel completely different about talking about money. Right. Set a realistic expectation. And it's why I love that question. Like, what's one thing, what's one resource I can either access or what's one thing I can start practicing or one thing I can start experimenting with to, to make this, you know, this thing 1% easier?'Cause finances is an umbrella term. It encompasses a lot of different things. So really zoom in, dissect, get very specific about what's the one thing you wanna play around with and, you know, do that, play around with it, and then see how that goes and move on to the next thing. It's, it's an ongoing process and my hope is that that's meant to make it a little bit more accessible and, you know, a little bit more manageable and a little bit more exciting.'cause it's always fun to learn and to try new things and then to be able to look back and be like, oh, look how far I've come. That's a cool feeling.
amelia:
So much. Yeah. When you bring that curiosity into it, it really can become this really beautiful opportunity and journey for growth and just understanding yourself in a, a new way. And, because we're talking about resources and just one small step at a time, um, Dr. Lisa Lippman, who's been on the podcast before, she just posted every year, she has a really helpful post of organizations that help with those who
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
can't afford vet bills. And so that's a great thing for vet parents or vet practices, vets to have on hand for those times that are tricky. When everybody wishes that there was more money and there just isn't, and there's a pet that needs help
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
it really is that ecosystem, right? It's like we do all work together, the pet parent, the veterinary team, and the pet. We need to prioritize everybody.
Dr. Shona:
And as a team too, I know we are wrapping up, but I'll just say quickly, like, right? part of, again, if you have feelings about something happening at your practice, it's like it might help inform what conversations need to be had as a team. What can we feel good about offering, you know, are we actively promoting and educating pet parents about insurance well before they need it at every appointment, not just at those puppy and kitten appointments. Are we
amelia:
Yeah.
Dr. Shona:
at utilizing or do we have multiple third party financing options at our clinic? Not just one, but a couple. Because sometimes a person might get approved by one, but not the other. But also, are we only offering it when we think the client needs it or are we offering it to everyone so that we're familiar recommending it so it feels a little bit more accessible to us. We're confident in how it works so that when we do really need it, there is that familiarity of offering it and how to use it. And then to your point, what other resources can we be aware of? Can we point clients in the direction of, if and when they don't have insurance? Third party financing doesn't work, you know, so on and so forth. And, and exactly that. What can we, what can we do in those situations. I love that. That's so important.
amelia:
I think that's such, such a great idea of having that conversation about all the financing options so early on, not waiting until it is that really stressful conversation. And, and I do think as a practice, it's a really powerful exercise to get clear on your values and then make sure you're having specific conversations about what that looks like for the scenarios when it's tough. So like if you're saying we treat your pet like our own, what exactly does that look like when someone just brought in a parvo puppy and they only have$20?
Dr. Shona:
Yep.
amelia:
Right. Because that's gonna cause so much frustration if there isn't that plan. But that is a
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
beautiful opportunity to work together
amelia--she-her-_1_03-06-2025_120323:
and think, okay, how can we interact with that scenario in a way where at the end of the day we can still feel fulfilled and like we're living up to our values
Dr. Shona:
We didn't even talk about, and I know we, you know, we didn't even get into the values piece, but it's so important.'cause when we think again about mental distress and, and a moral distress in vet med, it often comes from a clash of, of values or misaligned values, or another way to say that is living outside of our own values. And, and so again, if we're not talking about it, if we're not aware of it, if we haven't named those things specifically, we might just feel this friction, this overwhelm, this despair. So how can we get really specific about, that's such a great example where it's like, I'm confused. We, we talk about how this is a huge value of our practice. How do we reflect that in these particular situations? Right. If they're gonna happen. And it doesn't mean that we do it all for free. We, we can't. So what can we do in those moments to reflect that brand aspect or that value based quality of our, of our team? If we're not having those conversations again, we're all just gonna fill in the blanks, and create our own stories, and then that's gonna create a lot of confusion. So transparency is, is definitely important, and it, it starts, starts slow. Right. It doesn't mean that if you've never talked about finances with your team, that all of a sudden you're gonna go into the next meeting and be like, we're gonna show you every single one of our books and all of, like, that's not the answer Right.
amelia:
Right, one small step at a time
shona-kowtecky--she-her-_1_03-06-2025_090323:
Exactly. It's just,
Dr. Shona:
it's just, you know, even being aware that it's worth having those conversations. Yeah.
amelia:
absolutely. Yeah. so to wrap things up and kind of connected to values, I have two closing questions. The first one that I like to ask everybody is, when do you feel most alive?
Dr. Shona:
Ooh, that is such an amazing question. Um, I was thinking about this a little bit, and I think if I can describe, there's, there's two things that come to mind. One is when I am, when I am challenged, when I am in my stretch zone, when I'm getting to use the tools that I have in ways that, that challenge me without, again, without overwhelming me, without like, you know, overpowering my ability, but I feel that sense of like, I'm okay. I can figure this out. I, I've got the competence, I've got the confidence that I'm gonna do my best. I might not have the exact answer, but I believe that I can figure this out, and that could go for like physical, um, goals. I, I like to set hard goal goals for myself. I ran a, a 50 kilometer trail race last year. That was huge. I was never a runner, um, ever. I skipped every track and field day in school, so that deal for me. And so those, that ability to like push my limit that helps me alive And, and more specifically, it's also things that get me into my body. I'm, I'm very cerebral. I do a lot of thinking in our, in our world and our work in vet med, there's a lot of, of, of thought. So I spend a lot of time in my head and things. It's taken me many years to, to figure out and to learn how to do it, but to figure out how to get into my, into my body to be able to feel that because both of those experiences, the challenge and then the getting into my body. Really what they underline is that ability I feel most alive when I'm able to be present in that moment. And that means using all my different senses and including my body. And so one of the things I'll, I'll say is that for me, um, again, lots of different ways to do this. One of the things that makes me feel most alive, I actually am one of those weird people that, um, goes into the river by my house, uh, a couple times a week, or I try to do it a couple times a week. It's a glacial Fed River. It's freaking cold.
amelia:
Yeah. cold plunging!.
Dr. Shona:
And, and it started as a, as a bit of a dare with a friend where we, we would do it after a hike or run and we'd have fun and we'd scream and you know, and then it started to be like, Hey, let's see if we can do 10 this month. And that was, that was years ago. That was like four and a half years ago that we started doing that. And I will say that nothing gets me into my body and like thinking about my breathing like entering into glacial Fed Rivers scream that moment, it's like, oh my gosh. But in that moment it's like I feel very alive because I am hyper aware of everything happening in my body. So Yeah. I, that's my, my long way of saying I feel most alive when I am using all my senses in the present moment.
amelia:
Hmm. I love those. Those are great. That growth and just being present and it's so interesting hearing that it's always, that theme it is just an important reminder
Dr. Shona:
Yeah.
amelia:
that we feel alive when we are present and connected with our bodies. And everything we've talked about today and that self-awareness, it extends so much more beyond even finances. But when you are having that self-awareness, noticing the things in your life that are putting you in a stress response, the more you can look at for opportunities to shift out so that you're not, your norm isn't in survival mode, but so that you have that capacity and those resources to then go outside of be living on that growing edge and when, when important, allowing yourself to grow.'cause that can be such a great feeling.
Dr. Shona:
Yeah, and knowing that you can't operate there all the time, right? So it's like giving yourself that space where it's like, okay, that's not always where I will be, but what are the things I can do to create more opportunities to feel that way and to minimize the things that take me out of that feeling or out of that zone. I, yeah, I love that. It's such an, such a great question.
amelia:
Thank you. And so finally this, you've had, you've shared so many great tips and I know you have so much more to share. So where can people find you and find your book and all your other resources?
Dr. Shona:
the easiest way would probably be through my website, which is shonakowtecky.com. There is the option to email through there. The email is, letsconnect@shonakowtecky.com. But that's, that's where people can find the book. The book is available essentially through every online retailer, but you can also ask your local bookstore to, to special order it in. Um, that's something that, that,
amelia:
Awesome.
Dr. Shona:
you know, it's available worldwide. So that's, that's definitely kind of the most centralized location. I am in the process of building out additional material for supplementing the book that will be available down the road on that website as well. If you are a Canadian practice, Certainly if you're an independently owned Canadian practice, my, my full-time job is working with a company called Vet Alliance where we get to support independently owned practices across the country. We do a lot of non-medical CE and building up practices support. I get to work one-on-one with people that way. So that's, that's where I'll say certain Canadian practices can find me. Um, and then I am on LinkedIn. I'm a pretty terrible social media user currently. I need to work on that. It's one of the things I'm gonna do better. So I, I do have an Instagram account, but, that's not the best place to get ahold of me yet. So the website, by email, those are, those are definitely the two top places.
amelia:
Awesome. Thank you. And absolutely check out her book. It's so great and whether you are a veterinary professional or you are a pet owner, the way that you bring in and talk about Vet Med, I think is going to resonate and be interesting to everybody. So definitely check that out.
Dr. Shona:
Well, thank you. Thank you. I did, I wrote it with the idea that it's not only for vet people, and I will say I've had a lot of people outside of VetMed say that they're pleasantly surprised how true that is.
amelia:
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I want my husband to read it because it just shows that other side. So it's great. And thank you so much for your time. This conversation just went by so quickly, but I think there's a lot packed in there and
Dr. Shona:
I am so grateful for this opportunity and for you and, and for the work that you do. Really, really grateful for that. We need more of these conversations in vet med, so I have thoroughly enjoyed myself and I'm really, really grateful for that.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with someone who you think could benefit. And if you're enjoying this podcast, it would mean so much to me If you would take the time to leave a review so that others can find me. And as I thank you if you leave a review, send me an email, letting me know, and I'll send you a free guided meditation for mental rehearsal. So that is exactly what elite athletes, executives, incredible surgeons all use at the scientifically proven way to improve performance. And the reason this works so well is because when you are mentally rehearsing, the same area of your brain is lighting up as if you were actually doing it. And so it's a safe and effective way to be preparing and practicing and improving your skills for when you're actually living it in the moment. So send me an email at amelia@lifeboost.Today if you leave a review and i can't wait to share that with you cheers your inevitable health happiness and success
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