Ep. 94 | The F Word in Vet Med: Overcoming Fear Around Finances (Part 1)

With Dr. Shona Kowtecky — practical strategies to talk about money without stress.

Join Dr. Amelia and special guest Dr. Shona Kowtecky for an honest, practical conversation about one of the most stressful and avoided topics in veterinary medicine: finances. Whether you’re a veterinary professional or a pet owner, financial stress affects how you think, feel, and make decisions — and yet it’s rarely discussed in a way that feels supportive or clear.

In this episode, we unpack why money conversations feel so uncomfortable, how that impacts both veterinary teams and pet owners, and why building financial confidence is essential for well-being and access to care. Dr. Shona shares her F-E-A-R-R framework, a simple and effective tool to decrease fear around anything (including finances). 

You’ll walk away with practical strategies and mindset shifts you can start using immediately — whether you’re navigating client conversations, managing personal financial stress, or trying to understand the business side of veterinary medicine more clearly.

This is Part 1 of a 2-part series. Next week, we dive deeper into specific tools and exercises you can bring back to your clinic, team, or personal life.

Ways to connect with Dr. Shona Kowtecky:

• Email: letsconnect@shonakowtecky.com
• Website: https://www.shonakowtecky.com/
• LinkedIn -- www.linkedin.com/in/shona-kowtecky
• Book -- https://www.shonakowtecky.com/bookstore.html 

Resources mentioned:

• Blog post: coming soon!
• Article: Anticipating the downturn: business cycle forecasting for veterinary practice strategy in the United States
• Aligned Success Reboot: https://www.lifeboost.today/aligned-success-reboot

Transcript:

Welcome to the Life Boost with Amelia podcast where we're changing the narrative around what true health and success look like. They should give you energy, not drain it. I'm your host, Dr. Amelia multi-passionate integrative health and life coach, entrepreneur, and recovered burnout veterinarian. Together, we'll explore the science behind how your brain and body work, including the unconscious mind while also connecting with what your heart needs in order to stand up to the norm of feeling stuck on a hamster wheel-working hard yet feeling exhausted and not where you want to be- and instead live a life that makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning and in love with who you see when you look in the mirror. The reality is if you do what everyone else is doing, you're not going to feel good. Let's break the norm.

Hi, friend. Today we're talking about the F word, and by that I mean finances. Whether you're a veterinary professional or you're a pet owner, you have likely experienced firsthand the stress and frustration and all the big feelings that can come with the cost of veterinary care. And now more than ever, it's important to be talking about this because times are changing in Vet Med. We are all really feeling the pressure when it comes to finances.

Just last month in October, an article was published in the Frontiers in Veterinary Science Journal titled,"Anticipating the Downturn", and they found that through their modeling and forecasting the veterinary industry entered a recessionary phase in late 2024, and they're predicting that we're going to continue to have negative growth through mid 2026.

This does not have to be a big scary problem. This really is an incredible opportunity. Because what better time to face any of the parts of finances that have been feeling heavy, frustrating, or anxiety provoking, and thinking about ways that we can be proactive in addressing our own money mindset, but also the ways that we are having these conversations with pet owners and how we can help them to feel supported, to increase our transparency, to make our positive intention clear, to help them to understand the value of the services that we provide, so that finances end up being something that actually helps to bring us together and to build trust, rather than it creating a divide.

And so before moving forward, let's pause and just zoom out to look at the big picture for a moment so that you can keep this in mind as you're listening to this conversation. So vet Med, if you've listened to any of my other episodes, you know, I talk so much about how we have normalized operating in survival mode. And so that means, we are coming out of COVID, like we have been in such a fast paced, busy state, and we now are reaching this period where it's slowing down. And for a profession that has normalized survival mode and really been selected and rewarded for that hustle, this kind of slowing down and pause can feel incredibly threatening for our nervous system. And yet there is so much power in the pause because that is the space where we can really dive into specifically what is not working and what can we do differently embracing that compassion, curiosity, and connection, those three, life boost Cs, right?

And so just understanding that this time may be making your nervous system feel overwhelmed. And also this could be a really incredible thing for sustainable success for you to make some changes now that help you not only during this recessionary phase, but for years to come. And it's also important to keep in mind that the reality is most pet owners are probably feeling stressed about finances. And so often, veterinary care isn't something that's planned, right? It's a illness or emergency that comes up. And so keeping in mind that when pet owners are walking through the door, they may already be in a stress response because of finances, and that doesn't have to be a problem. Because there are so many ways that we can be proactive in helping them to feel supported, making sure they're not feeling judged, making sure we're having really effective conversations so that they can go from feeling really stressed to feeling supported, seen, and trusting their vets. The practices that are able to do that during this time are the ones that are really going to be thriving, not just now, but long term. So keep that in mind as you listen to this conversation.

And it's not just pet owners that are feeling this financial stress within Vet Med, it's certainly when we look at support staff, we see low retention rates and stress and frustration around finances and their compensation. And so how can we be compensating them in a way that helps them to feel valued so that we can keep them in our profession even during these times when we are feeling this added financial stress with a recessionary phase? And so in this conversation, we not only dive into the veterinary care side, but we're also tackling that component of how can we be navigating these conversations among the veterinary team to decrease stress and frustration around compensation, and instead shift it into really empowering conversations that can help to, again, strengthen relationships and understanding and strengthen trust within a practice rather than causing frustration and divide.

So I recorded this conversation many, many months ago with Dr. Shona Kowtecky, and I have been so excited to share it with you because it is packed with so many great ideas. And the conversation flowed so well that it ended up being two hours and we easily could have chatted for so much longer. And so I've divided this into two parts. This first part, we have a nice conversation that's really going to help you to be thinking about the way that you've been approaching money, and she also shares her fear approach, so it's F-E-A-R-R. It is a really cool strategy for any time you are experiencing fear related to finances or anything in life. It's a really cool way of breaking it down and thinking about how you can reduce the fear. So I know you're going to get so much out of that, and my hope is that this can be the start of a really beautiful, productive conversation within Vet Med as well as and including pet owners. Now is the time to be having these really transparent conversations about finances so we can find solutions that really support the wellbeing of everybody, the veterinary team, the pet owners, and of course our pets.

And to supplement this episode, I put together a blog post, rounding up a variety of different companies and resources and options when it comes to financing veterinary care. So that we can be really proactive in making sure that pet owners understand the huge variety and so that veterinary practices can think about what combination they want to utilize in order to be able to offer a nice spectrum of care, including spectrum of payment options.

So my guest, Dr. Shona Kaki, is a fear free certified veterinarian, author, speaker, and consultant who spent over 20 years helping people and animals lead enriched lives, both within the veterinary profession and beyond. Known for mixing humor, hard truths, and practical solutions. Shona has a unique ability to make complex challenges, feel less overwhelming, and a lot more manageable. Her book, people are Animals too, explores self-awareness through the lens of veterinary medicine, offering actionable steps for both personal and professional growth. Because self-awareness isn't just a"fluffy" concept, it's a requirement for a life that's fulfilling and sustainable. Yet most of us are never taught this or how to develop it effectively. With a blend of science and real world experience. Shona challenges us to show up better for ourselves so we can show up better for those around us. By asking the question,"what if we examined and cared for ourselves the way we examine and care for the animals in our lives?" All right, let's dive into the conversation.

amelia: 9:46

Hello and welcome, Shona. Thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Shona: 9:49

Oh, thank you. I'm, really excited for this conversation.

amelia: 9:52

Me too. Yeah. I'm so glad that our paths crossed. I think originally I was chatting with someone about us needing a fear-free approach with humans in Vet Med and they were like, oh, you need to talk to Shona because she is talking about the same kind of thing. And so it's been so nice just getting to connect with you. I've enjoyed our conversations. I am loving reading your book, people are Animals too. You are such a gifted writer and I love how you have integrated in Vet Med and you're such a great storyteller and the way that you break down concepts. Just as I'm reading it, I'm like, oh, I just love the that you broke this down or described it. really appreciate that. I feel like there are so many things that talk about, but I'm really excited about the topic today, finances in vet med, because when we think about fear, I think about finances bringing up a lot of fear, frustration. It's one of those aspects that is so draining and maybe leading to VetMed not feeling sustainable. And yet really there is a way to be approaching this where it can actually feel rewarding. It can actually be bringing us-the vet team and pet parents- together instead of causing a divide.

Dr. Shona: 11:13

Yeah,

amelia: 11:13

I'm looking forward to diving into that

Dr. Shona: 11:15

absolutely. and, thank you, for, telling me a little bit about your experience reading the book too. It's been such a process and it's been something that's been a multi-year process and it's very rewarding at this point to actually get some of that feedback from people who, who are reading it and experiencing it and are able to comment on what it means to them or what it's making them think about, because that. was my hope, writing it and putting a lot of thought and time into it. And so it's really cool to hear from people both within VetMed and outside of VetMed, to hear their experience and what they've got from it. and I, really love, I love this, topic. I think it's very timely right now. Uh, it always has been a timely topic, finances, but the fear around it is something that impacts all of us, whether we're pet parents or vet professionals, vet people. And it's something that I think for many of us, there are these, all these subconscious beliefs around money and finances, and they either help or hinder us, right? But they are often subconscious. And So I'm sure we're gonna jump into some of that, but when we don't realize that they're there and they are influencing how we make decisions, how we think, how we feel, how we sound when we talk about money, that's kind of the like, oh, what can we do to feel empowered and actually in control when it comes to these scary conversations.

amelia: 12:51

Yes. So, true. And that was really an important thing for me and my recovery from burnout was increasing that self-awareness and realizing that I did have a lot of money mindset, just beliefs that were holding me back. I was realizing I was kind of punishing myself for feeling like I had made a horrible investment in going into vet med. And, and that was influencing even little things that I did throughout the day. Like feeling oh, I don't even deserve spending the extra dollar on guac at Chipotle, you know, because I haven't paid off all my student loans. So it's it's very interesting how much it can be influencing us without even realizing.

Dr. Shona: 13:33

Absolutely because it influences how we. I love that example, right? Like how we think about ourselves and the potential labels or judgments we put on ourselves, right down to, shame or guilt about, guacamole, that extra dollar. but also how we enter into conversations with other people. And again, whether that's, walking into an exam room talking about money with, a client or a pet parent, whether you're the pet parent walking into the exam room or the clinic ready to talk about it with the vet team. If you are an employee going to your boss to talk about money, vice versa, manager talking to your employees like it's ever present. It's how we make decisions and, it. It really, I love what you said'cause my own experience too with, the ups and downs and everything in between. And, and I myself at one point was like, I think I'm out of this profession. I don't think I can stay here anymore. That's a really heart wrenching place to be when you've spent decades, you know, working to get there. And so. exactly to your point. I, I love what you said, which is that there is almost always something we can do for ourselves to feel a bit more empowered. And it's interesting, we use the word burnout a lot and compassion fatigue a lot in vet med. And, yet if we wanna talk about, animals,'cause that's obviously my mindset, how I love to frame things. a lot of times it's also, an element of learned helplessness and I mean that not in a critical way or a judgmental way, but just that it's oh, I've tried this one thing or I've even tried these four things and it didn't work. Therefore I should just give up. I can't do anything. And that is incredibly like a challenging place to be in mentally. And so a huge part of coming out of that sense of learned helplessness or hopelessness is feeling a sense of agency, right? Having that autonomy, having some control. And I think that's what's exciting about these conversations is that there are so many little things that we can do for ourselves that, that give us that boost.

amelia: 15:47

Yes. Absolutely. And I love how you are addressing that sense of hopelessness and whenever I think about burnout or feeling stuck, hopelessness, from a nervous system perspective, that's just telling me that person is in that freeze or shutdown where it's a very normal place or feeling of just you feel like giving up. You just have no motivation or low energy. And I think it's so helpful, like the conversations like this, where we can break down, okay, what about that is just feeling really overwhelming'cause that's really all it is, right? There's overwhelming our body with stress.And looking for all those op opportunities to how can we reestablish safety or at least create that predictability or some support in order to make these things less scary so that we're not going into shut down giving up.

Dr. Shona: 16:42

Totally. It makes me think one of my favorite definitions of the word overwhelm, and let me pause and say, I wish I could remember where I heard this from so I could credit whomever or, or whatever the source was. And I don't remember. But it's that, overwhelm.'cause it's a word we use a lot. Right. And to your point, like when our, when we're feeling stuck, that is a, a fear reaction. And being stuck or not being able to, you know, take action because we're feeling overwhelmed. That stuckness, that inactivity, that's the behavior that is attached to the feeling of overwhelm. Right? And so for me, the, my favorite definition of overwhelm is that it's a state of being under-resourced and the reason I find that so helpful is when I catch myself feeling or saying that, right? I'm just so overwhelmed right now. I remember that definition. And, so then the next question is, okay, well what's one resource within my grasp, right? Like really, really simple, accessible that I can choose to, to access or to use. it might be, you know, resources, we think ironically of like the big stuff, like more time, more money, more team members, Right. And those things might not always be readily accessible. So a resource might also be, I need some more information, right? Like, who can I go to or how can I access that information? Or it might be to your point, I need to regulate, right? Like, I can catch myself. Like I'm jittery, or I'm, I'm anxious, or whatever it is. So what can I do to regulate myself like in this exact moment it might also be, I'm feeling stuck, so what's. One thing I can do to signal to my brain that I'm not actually physically stuck. And that might mean standing up or moving or like even just, whatever, tapping your legs or going for a walk. And, so anyways, I'm now rambling about, that word. But I, I love the definition because of the fact that it actually in that moment now gives me a blueprint for what's my next step, which again, is often what's so terrifying about feeling overwhelmed is that you can't see that next step.

amelia: 18:55

Yes. the way that you break things down. It's so true. And I think of under resources also, like a lack of energy, right? And so it's looking at is there any little shift that could just give a little bit of energy? And whether that is like a nervous system regulating tool or sometimes it's just a mindset shift and like you're saying, like a fresh perspective or having a way of looking at something that can just suddenly give you just a little bit of energy to feel less overwhelmed.

Dr. Shona: 19:23

Or it could also be when did I last eat? Like, when did I,

amelia: 19:28

So much yes!.

Dr. Shona: 19:31

to your point about energy, does my body actually need some glucose right now?

amelia: 19:37

yes. Oh, you're speaking my language. We really need to be addressing that physical aspect. Right. In vet med, as well.

amelia--she-her-_1_03-06-2025_120323: 19:44

as

Dr. Shona: 19:44

I'm the kind of person that has alarms in my phone reminding me to drink some water.'cause of the fact that I can, just get really in the zone and all of a sudden I'm like, what do you mean eight hours has gone by?

amelia: 19:57

right? yes. true.

Dr. Shona: 20:00

Pros and cons to that for sure. So

amelia: 20:03

Yeah. It's good. That self-awareness though, you are setting a good example of that.

Dr. Shona: 20:08

I really try to always, practice what I preach in that regard. It's, and that's, I will say everything in the book, and even everything we're gonna talk about today, these are things that I have done and continue to do for myself. Like these are, questions and thoughts and activities, that I absolutely have put to the test. they do have science behind them as Well but they're also very experience informed, which to me is very important.

amelia: 20:35

Yeah. I love that. I can relate to being your own Guinea pig, right? It's like you go first experience it,

Dr. Shona: 20:40

Yeah.

amelia: 20:41

put in some of the science and then, yeah. And then I am so impressed that you wrote a book about it. So one thing that I loved when we were having our last conversation is you were referring to finances as the F word and I though that that was, that was perfect because it really sums up the vibe, I think, VetMed. So that's a really great place to start is why does it feel like the F word? Why is it so frustrating and why is there so much fear and why is that something that so often, we are avoiding even talking about?

Dr. Shona: 21:17

Yeah, I think if I had to summarize it in one sentence, it's that most of us were taught that it's rude to talk about money, or that we just don't talk about money, and so therefore, most of us were never taught how to talk about. money. So that's it in a nutshell. But, regardless of what your exact upbringing was, or conversation or training around money or finances, was the reality, and we kind of alluded to this before, is that there are a lot of fears and anxieties and stresses when we're entering into a conversation about money, especially in vet med because there are feelings about it. And, so I think what's interesting is that again, our, our kind of subconscious beliefs or the unspoken thoughts that, that we have. That, that often hinder us. They're often fear-based, right? And again, these influence how, how we look, how we sound, how we feel. So what I mean by that is, how does it influence how we look? it might be that we are avoiding conversations or that we enter into like people pleasing behaviors to avoid conflict and, you know, keep the peace. It might mean that we look really awkward or really, uncertain because we're afraid of, of having this conversation. It can also influence how we, how we sound. Of course, if we're kind of, you know, uming and eyeing and we're uncertain, oh, you know, and like we're, backtracking or we're not confident in how we're speaking, that's also going to influence the other person's perception. And then that might create some distrust. Like if they're recommending this thing to me or they're talking about this, but they sound this way. Like, do they actually believe it? Are they trying to take advantage of me? Right. Like there's that piece. And then the field part, again, you, you referenced this before, is that we often, again, our unaddressed fears around, around finances can influence how we think or talk to ourselves. So it might be that we start to, layer on shame or guilt or also become very, critical or judgmental of the other person potentially. Right. And.

amelia: 23:28

Yeah.

Dr. Shona: 23:29

Then that enters or that changes how we enter into conversations. It can impact things like imposter syndrome, right? Am I worth it? I'm charging this. I'm not good enough. Why should I, you know, all of these types of things. So that's one of the f words is it's fear-based. The other thing is that we often have fixed perspectives about finances or money, and it's when we catch ourselves thinking about money or finances and absolutes. you know, the classic either or statements, right? Money is either good or bad. people who talk about money are either greedy or generous, right? You know, in, in that regard, scarcity or abundance. And there's often that one or the other, which again, is very, very limiting in how we view ourselves, view others, and how we enter into those conversations. And then the other piece about finances and why it's the F word, if you will, is that there so many times, because we're not often talking about the nuances, the details, um, and I, I wanna be clear, like when I'm referencing money again, it can definitely be in the vet clinic, but also outside in your personal life too. but we often, we often fill in the blanks with our own narratives and you know, in the absence of information, we might be generally trying to, to complete that story. But our perception is our reality. And so unless we're actually trying to get the facts or talking to the other people involved when we're filling it in again, that's, our own narrative. And there's a lot of assumptions that go into that. And so a lot of the challenges when we're having a conversation about money with someone else is that there's misunderstanding, miscommunication, misaligned intentions. And so we kind of end up, there's friction, there's butting heads, and, that's often again, because of those unaddressed, fears and fixed perspectives and the fiction or, or the, the fill in the blanks that we're, doing. So for me, the, antidote to that or the solution is how do we bring this to the surface level so that we start making decisions that are a little bit more feelings informed. even talking about fear or recognizing that fear even exists in these conversations.

amelia: 26:03

Yes. Yeah, it's like the elephant in the room.

Dr. Shona: 26:05

Yeah. exactly. Trying, to, look for opportunities to be a bit more flexible and then trying to gather the full story by filling in the facts as well. So anyways, that's a lot of f words.

amelia: 26:18

Yeah. No, I love that. And everything that you just went over, it really helps to paint that picture and show how much we all are just walking around with like our own experience of money. And there is just so many stories and biases and experiences that are really influencing all those feelings that we have. And I really loved how you're highlighting that duality that's created of is it good or bad or greedy and all these labels that put so many emotions. And, I'm thinking too, I think when vet Med when talking about finances, there's a lot of taking it really personally. It's like certainly, I can think about the pet owner who's accuses us of only being in it for the money. And when we know how untrue that is, that can certainly feel so threatening or, I can think about support staff who just don't even feel valued maybe because of their compensation. And so yeah, there really are so many feelings and I love how you highlight, let's even just talk about those feelings so then we can, be doing something about it.

Dr. Shona: 27:39

It is really interesting'cause one of the things I've seen,, for, many, many years in, in the exam room, but especially in the work I do now, where I get to talk with practices and, and practice owners, but also team members from across the country, and I should say the country being Canada for me, but, but literally thousands of people at this point that, you know, when I even talk about fear, I think we need to get a little bit more specific about some of those things, right? So it. could be fear of rejection, right? So what if this person says no to, something? It's fear of, incompetence sometimes, or fear of judgment, right? Where it's like this, what is this person going to think of me based on what I say? Right? So in this case, it might be that you're a pet parent and it's like, i'm afraid to talk about money because what is this veterinarian or, or technician or, or again, anyone on the vet team, what are they going to think of me? What are they gonna think of me as a pet parent when I say I can only spend X amount of dollars. There's also that fear of the unknown, which again, you're a team member. and again, because most of us don't have training specific to communicating around finances, it's like, what the heck do I do if this person says no? Or what do I do if and when they say this? And because of that uncertainty, we're afraid of it. And, so I think what's really interesting, again, is that if we don't acknowledge those fears, we all have different ways of responding to fear and, again, sometimes it's subconscious, sometimes it's, it's a little bit more intentional. But for some of us, it means that we enter into those conversations defensive. We're like, we're prepared for a fight. Or because we're feeling all the, all the fear, all the like built up energy and, and adrenaline and we're like, again, fear reactions, fight, flight, you know? For sure. Or, or fidgeting to, which is kind of a subcategory. And I think those are the elements that we don't really think about how they influence, how we enter into these conversations or how we make decisions about them.

amelia: 29:52

Yeah. It's so true. It's like our unconscious, like there are all these triggers, right? That bring up this automatic fear response from past experiences and it's so true. I think sometimes we carry those in without even realizing that we're doing and going in already being in that defensive fight or fawn mode.

Dr. Shona: 30:12

Yeah. Yeah. And again, it like to be very clear. These responses and these reactions, like they are normal. I think that's an incredibly important point to recognize. As much as we're going to talk about, ways to move out of that, out of those states and be a little bit more aware and have more agency about how we enter into these conversations or, decisions. It's not to say that your starting point is bad. It's, again, it's not that it's right or wrong, it's just that it's your starting point. And, I'm gonna talk about a little activity in a little bit. I know we're gonna get there. That is really, really important because again, it's, it's not about comparing ourselves to everyone else. It's actually looking internally for showing up better for ourselves so that we can show up better for others. And that's where I really love what you said about. In Vet Med, we have that added layer that money influences what we can do for our patients or what we can do for our, pets

amelia--she-her-_1_03-06-2025_120323: 31:18

Yeah.

Dr. Shona: 31:18

so there is often this blurred line between our feelings and then the other person's feelings, whether that's the client or the vet team member. And I think we often also get really confused about what's ours and what's theirs.

amelia: 31:34

Mmmm,

Dr. Shona: 31:36

Yeah.

amelia: 31:36

Yeah, so true.. It is this ecosystem, right? It's like it's all connected, but that is so important to be able to separate and Yeah, not absorbing the energy and, fear response

Dr. Shona: 31:49

Yeah.

amelia: 31:50

of, the pet parent that we're interacting with.

Dr. Shona: 31:52

Absolutely.

amelia: 31:54

So I'd love to go over what do you think are some important conversations that veterinary teams and practice owners can be having? Because really, if I think about many of my jobs, as a veterinarian, there were times when we really, I didn't really know what was happening financially. And I think when it's just so unknown or you don't really understand how the finances are working, then there is that whole fear of the unknown. And so what do you think are some important basics and conversations that should be happening?

Dr. Shona: 32:36

I have so many ideas around this,

amelia: 32:39

I love that.

Dr. Shona: 32:40

I'm gonna try to summarize what's in my head, but, I'll, start with sharing my own quick story of what you just described. When I was a new grad many, years ago, now at this point, my mentor and I, I'm very grateful that he said this, but he was like, you know what? Right now I want you to focus just on the medicine. I don't want you to worry about anything else. Like your job is to become a good clinician and a good surgeon and to really focus on the medical aspect and, and the patients. And, so I did that, right? And, and that incorporated a lot of other things too. But that was my focus. And so. It meant that for at least that first year, year and a bit, there were again, no conversations about, about money in general and other clinics I worked at as well.'cause I, had the unique opportunity to work at many, many different clinics early on in my career, while also having continuity at certain places. I remember maybe two, two and a half years into my career at a different hospital, the manager coming to me and saying, Hey, just outta curiosity, like, do you wanna see your numbers? Like, get an idea of what you're doing? And I was like, no, not really. Like, unless you want to go over them with me, I really don't have any interest and I don't have any need to do that."No, no, that's fine." And you know, fast forward a little bit, what started to happen is that there were decisions being made and things happening that I had some very strong feelings about because they indirectly influenced myself and the team. And the clients. And the patients. And so there were strong feelings, but again, they were fill in the blanks. They were a lot of my own fiction because I thought I knew, but I was missing a whole language when it came to business, understanding financial awareness. And so it meant that I couldn't really enter into those conversations in a way that a, I felt confident.'cause it was like, I don't know what I don't know. But it also meant that I wasn't necessarily doing myself any favors.'cause I was often. kind of ruminating on the worst case scenario of like, they're doing this and they're making this decision based on that. But I didn't actually have any evidence or proof of that. And so for me, you know, again, fast forward over the next couple of years, I dove into learning as much about the business and the finances as I possibly could. And, you know, I'll be honest, there were some things I, I learned and, and vocabulary I learned where I was like, hell Yeah. I was Right. I couldn't articulate it. I didn't know how to explain it before, but I, I was Right. My instinct was right. And then other things where I was like, oh, I had no idea about that. So more than anything, I think one of the first things to try and create is a little bit more familiarity with vocabulary or words that have to do with finances. And, again, for some of us, it's like, well, where the heck do I start with that? I don't even know where that exists? And, so I think that's. where. Certainly you can do a lot of learning and fact gathering on your own, but talking about it as a team, talking about it, whether it's with your manager or with your boss, but also again, as a pet parent, it might be that you go into the exam room and you're like, Hey, I have some questions, can you help me understand? And, one of the key concepts that I think is really important to your point, like what are some things we can do? It's also recognizing some universal truths or principles, which is financial stress is real for everyone. Everyone, I don't care if you are a business owner, if you are someone making minimum wage. If you are a doctor, a technician, a you know, a pet parent. If you work in industry and you're, you're a rep or. Or a huge business. The reality is that we all experience financial stress. And I can say I've worked with clients who literally sometimes unhoused or, or not in a stable situation in that regard where$20 outside their expected budget means that they can't eat that day or that week. And then I, I've also worked with people who quite literally have five homes across the world. The fascinating thing is that the financial conversation, the way to have that successfully, it's the same with every one of them.'cause they all have different, stresses and we don't know what's going on behind the scenes with them. We're very quick to make judgements, oh, did you see the car they drove up in? Or, you know, if you're, again, a pet parent walking in like, Ooh, look how fancy this clinic is. Like, nice to know that I paid for it. And there's, again, there's these assumptions or these narratives that we apply. So I, I think remembering that it's real for everyone. Then also specific to Vet Med. Vet Med is a business. It costs money to practice medicine and that money does have to come from somewhere, but there's also tons of overhead and unseen expenses that go into running a hospital. And, again, I've got another little activity for that, that we can talk about down the road, but it's, it's really important to remember that, I always say it like in Canada, we have the, the benefit of often not seeing our healthcare costs because a lot of it is covered, or certain amounts that are covered by our different, provincial, healthcare coverages. And it's different by province that's why it's like in some it's OIP and some it's MSP. And so the, the downside of that is that we often have no concept of what things cost. And so what I often say to, you know, to pet parents where it's like, look, I wish that our pets were covered by, again, fill in the blank MSP or ohip, but they're not. And yet we're using often the same equipment or the same tools or the same, sometimes the same drugs, or the same, certainly trained personnel. And, those things cost money. And so we don't often have that frame of reference for it. And so I really think that reminding ourselves of that is, is important and that, whether we are a team member or a business owner or, a pet parent, a client, it's entering into those conversations with honesty and transparency and sometimes a little bit of vulnerability to make sure that we're not ignoring that part of the conversation.'cause finance, they absolutely are a factor that we need to consider. They're a reality. They are part. Of the spectrum of care, right? When we talk about new gold standard, it's Okay. what's the right thing for this patient and this client in this moment based on their circumstances right now. And finances are always a part of that. So I'll say one more thing quickly and then I'll, then I'll pause. But, we, I think from a basic key terminology perspective, we also often think that when we look at revenue or markup that we think that automatically translates to profit. And so something a lot of clinic teams say is, oh my goodness, we're charging X amount. Like, oh, that's going right into pocket. And whether that's a corporation or you know, an owner, and that's simply not true. Revenue is, the money that comes in. Absolutely. And that's necessary, but then there's expenses that are paid, right? And so those expenses can be both direct and indirect. Again, a lot of obvious things, but then a lot of things behind the scenes that we don't think about, including ourselves and the electricity and the heat, and, you know, the gauzes that we use or the IV catheters that, oh, you know, didn't get the first two pokes. We throw out one, grab another one. Those things all add up. And so those expenses come out of what the markup on a product is or what we charge for a service. and so profit is what's left over after we've paid for everything else. And it's fascinating when you do an actual breakdown, you know, and I, I worked someone who had an MBA and had been working in the financial world in VetMed for over 12 years, and we did this exercise where when you look at let's say a client spends a thousand dollars out of practice. And even though practice is a little bit different, the reality is that a lot of their expenses, the thing that are things that are on their profit and loss statement that they have to pay every, every month, we have an idea of where they fall. And when you actually do the math for every thousand dollars that a client might spend over the course of the year, that only accounts, or that only creates about$160 of actual profit. And profit is not just, again, it's not just going into someone's pocket. That's where we get the money for things like raises or new equipment or a renovation or training. and so that's the thing that I think in VetMed, we often, we have to recognize that it comes, it has to come from somewhere. And it also, okay, if you know what, there's. We still have feelings about it, that's Okay. but we just need to be talking about it more

amelia: 41:56

Yeah. Okay. You just said so many great things there. Yeah, it was all helpful and important and like starting from the beginning, one thing that I really love that you did was showing the importance of ditching judgment and embracing curiosity and how you noticed, you had certain assumptions and stuff, but instead staying frustrated in those stories or assumptions, you did start to get curious and to learn more about the language. And I think that alone is important to highlight anytime you find yourself feeling frustrated, whether that's with the client or with your vet practice and judgment isn't ever going to lead you anywhere helpful, but curiosity is always going to help with moving forward. to something that feels better

Dr. Shona: 42:53

Yeah,

amelia: 42:54

or opens doors at

Dr. Shona: 42:56

absolutely. Yes.

amelia: 42:58

Yeah, I think also I love how, in that conversation with the pet owner, you're really helping like and when it comes to that spectrum of care, right? It is really helping them to feel seen, acknowledging what is feeling hard, like Yeah. That is surprising, right? Like healthcare for us doesn't cost a thing and yet here it is costing a lot. that's understandable and, let's address, or let's talk about why that is or, the value in that. I think all of that just helps to establish that safety or make that positive intention clear, which I think is so key

Dr. Shona: 43:37

Yeah,

amelia: 43:38

in all of these.

Dr. Shona: 43:39

I think that's one of the things I'll say quickly that normalizing that and giving space for that client to, to feel seen or to feel like it's okay to talk about money or talk about how they're even feeling about money. That's something that can really immediately, like, lower down the stress levels. Because again, it's there, but we're not talking about again, that elephant in the room. It's like, Oh. we're we, okay, let's talk like physically imagining an elephant in the room. Right? And I can say I've actually had the specific pleasure of working with elephants in a past life. They are very big creatures. So if you imagine an elephant in a room, the whole idea is like you are pressed up against the wall. You do not have space to actually move. And so you, you are very limited in what you know, again, what resources you can get. What, opportunities, like the space to just like breathe and feel safe.. And so by naming it, I know, again, this is like a really silly metaphor kind of analogy, but the whole concept of like name to tame or name to claim it, right? When you name that elephant in the room, poof, that elephant kind of disappears or at least gets smaller. And so all of a sudden you've got more space to breathe. You've got more space to actually think. And, so you can often see it with clients. There's like this like, oh, okay, this deep breath where it's like, oh, they're not going to kick me out of the room, right? Or they're not gonna judge me or, or think that I'm a terrible person because I, can't do this one procedure because of this. But it doesn't mean we can't have a conversation around what is possible and what we can do.

amelia: 45:22

Yeah. So true. And I love it. It's true you can see that like relief when they realize that it's okay, like however they're feeling is okay. And that's where transparency and I think some of the things we'll talk about in a minute that help with feeling more comfortable with talking about numbers can help, but because we avoid then there's this element of surprise and unknown of okay, I'm agreeing to things'cause I feel like I should, but I also don't know how much it costs. And this shock at the end versus if at the very beginning, that's just an organic, natural part of the conversation because you're saying, we are a business. That's, that is part of

Dr. Shona: 46:02

Yeah.

amelia: 46:03

it. And so trying to avoid that isn't that's not going to change that.

Dr. Shona: 46:07

Yeah.

amelia: 46:08

So I think that can, yeah..

Dr. Shona: 46:09

Also remembering that. Just like medicine doesn't exist in isolation. Neither does money or neither do finances. there are so many things when we look at what's a healthy business, right? A healthy business. Yes. for sure. Healthy financials, and that requires diagnostics. It requires strategic planning. It requires oversight and management. Because again, the reality is that everything costs something. And so if we're not thinking about it, if we're not planning for it, to your point, it's gonna come as a surprise, right? And it's gonna sneak up on us. And again, that's whether we're a business owner or a team member or, or a pet parent. And, and I will say one thing to just, I think point out specifically is that majority, I would say 99%. That's totally a made up statistic, but most people that work in VetMed are pet parents too. And so sometimes the fear or the feelings that they have around talking about cost is because in the back of their heads, they're like, holy shit, I couldn't afford this if this happened to me right now. And so then there's that like layer of almost, again, panic or like, how would I feel? But they focus on that for themselves as opposed to focusing on, on the client or the, the pet parent in that situation. And So, we get it, you know, like I, you know, I, I always say to people, as a vet, there's a lot that I can do for, my dog, and there's also a lot that I can't do. And that's one reason why I have insurance. Um, and I'm very grateful I have it because of the fact that, you know, in the first year of us getting our dog, a whole bunch of stuff happened. And insurance paid out, I think almost$15,000. And the reality is that. At that time, I was still heavily in student debt and paying it off. I did not have that money. absolutely. So I think that's that reminder too where we, all wish that this wasn't a factor, but it is. We're all impacted by it. So we, get it. We need to think about what it's like to be in the other person's shoes.

amelia: 48:19

Yeah, it's so true. Yeah. I also have pet insurance now, and I'm so grateful. I have been aware, like of course want to be able to do everything, but I have noticed it makes it easier. Like for example, I have a Frenchie and realized after attending a CE lecture on Frenchies, that he was showing some of the signs of potentially having tethered chord syndrome and which I hadn't heard about before. And it was so nice having that pet insurance because without hesitation I was okay, I'm going to go get the neurology referral and he is gonna get an MRI. And he ended up needing surgery and it took out that financial component. And the reality is, if I didn't have pet insurance, I probably wouldn't have been as fast to do it. I still would've, but it would've been a lot more thought And slower.

Dr. Shona: 49:12

and, I think that's something that, again, my little speech, but it's a speech for a reason that I, that I give clients when I'm talking about pet insurance is that I'll say, I, wanna recognize my bias, which is that I see the worst case scenarios. In this career for, you know, I've been in Vet Med for over 20 years. I have seen so many situations where there are things we could have done, had the money been there, and everyone's in a different financial situation. Again, for some people having to, to pay a hundred dollars,$200, they're like, for them that could mean they can't pay rent that month. Right? Or all of a sudden they're like, okay, I have to cut back on my own. Like, I've had clients say, I, okay, I have to choose between my pet's medication or my medication. and then I, for other people, putting a couple thousand dollars on their credit card, no one wants to, but for them, they're like, okay, it sucks and I can deal with it. So everyone's in a different financial situation and, more than anything, especially when it comes to pet insurance, I just like people to know that it's a thing and be aware of it, and know that it can often alleviate some of that financial stress when we find ourselves in situations where, again, it's holy shit, I wasn't planning for this. Let's face it, that's often what medicine is. None of us plan for accidents or illnesses or surgeries, things like that.

amelia: 50:37

absolutely. Yeah, completely. Yeah. And so I know you have so many great tips, so let's transition over to some specific cases or specific things that practices can be doing. And I know in your book you introduce this fear strategy, which really helps with breaking things down, like some big category like finances into bite-sized digestible pieces and problem solving. So let's dive into that a little bit. Do you wanna talk a little bit about your fear strategy first and then we can go into some scenarios.

Dr. Shona: 51:18

Absolutely. So the FEARR Strategy came up. I, was really actually very excited when I realized, and this was years ago as I was writing the book, when the concepts and the steps that I had come up with, when I actually realized that the acronym was Fear and it's Fear with two Rs. I was like, this is, yeah. this is meant to be. How cool.

amelia: 51:42

Love a good acronym.

Dr. Shona: 51:44

we're in vet med, right? Who doesn't love one?. and the whole concept is that, we can, decrease our feeling of fear or, that fear, anxiety, stress, we can actually decrease that by increasing F-E-A-R-R and that stands for, familiarity. Exposure, accessibility, relevance, or relatability. And, reason, and I'll, I'll go into a little bit more what that means, but I, where this came from was that we're often in this kind of we're in our bubble. We're in this fairly comfortable place of like, yep, this is how I exist, this is how I think, how I operate. And for whatever reason we are being, whether by choice or, or we're being forced to take a step outside of that bubble and move towards something that feels really uncomfortable, right? So in this case, it might be, I want to avoid all talk about money, right? I'm, I'm happy here, I'm happy not talking about it. But then all of a sudden we find ourselves working in a vet hospital, or we find ourselves having to take our pets to a vet hospital, for example. And so now all of a sudden we have to start talking about money, and that feels Really uncomfortable. And I think what's fascinating, again, you talk about nervous systems. Our nervous systems react to things that aren't always rational or logical to our brains, but that doesn't matter. it's whatever it perceives. Again, perception is reality. And so for our nervous system, sometimes it sees something and it's like, that is as scary as a lion chasing me and it reacts as such.

amelia: 53:18

Completely.

Dr. Shona: 53:19

And so, that's where we have our fear reactions, and I Love the word reaction as, as opposed to response because it is involuntary. It's a physiological response that our brain and our hormones and our neurology are doing. And we often can't control that. There are things we can do to manage it, to work with it. But in and of itself, we can't just shut it off. And so knowing that to move from my comfortable bubble to something new that feels uncomfortable, at least at first, oftentimes the thing that triggers that fear reaction is just whatever's unfamiliar. So the things we're afraid of or the things we say we can't do, or it's like, oh, I'm not natural at that, or I'm not good at that. Almost always it's actually because it's like, no, you're just not familiar with it. So part of decreasing our fear is by increasing familiarity and that really comes through consistency and, repeatability. And so thinking about what are, what opportunities can I create for myself to practice? What can I do to make this unfamiliar thing a little bit more familiar? And honestly, that something as simple as watching like Instagram or TikTok videos around how to talk about money. It could be something like that. It could be making it more familiar again, like trying to build in certain types of conversations or, or, topics. Building it into conversations with a really close friend who you feel safe with. And it's like, I'm gonna start here. I'm gonna make this a bit more familiar so that when I do have to talk about it with a stranger in an emotionally intense situation, I have that competence or a little bit more, a little bit more competence. And that creates a bit of confidence. So that's the, F part, and then exposure. And I should say, for me, when I was thinking about, okay, how do we get from that comfortable bubble to the uncomfortable next step? And most of us, it's like, I'm just gonna throw myself at it and hope that something sticks or something works. And for me it's no, no, I wanna a map. And so that's where I came up with this acronym. which is that there are actually blueprints or steps that we can take, we can be systematic about it. We can even, be structured about how we approach these things. And that's where again, it was like, oh, it's by increasing familiar familiarity, increasing exposure, accessibility. And, and so exposure is about creating awareness, of course, and finding opportunity. So, and I, I should say, it's not that it's sequential. You don't have to do F first and then e and then a like. They can happen in any order all at once and, and, uh, and they definitely overlap, but the exposure is looking around you and diversifying your input, right? Like, how can I make this thing more familiar by increasing my exposure to it? How can I feel more confident by increasing my opportunity to practice it and to essentially, again, become more familiar. The accessibility piece is about increasing proximity, minimizing barriers, and maximizing boosters, right? So what can you do to make this scary or this unfamiliar thing a little bit less scary? Right? And I, I kind of gave an example of that too, where it's like, okay, instead of the first time practicing this conversation in a super intense situation with a stranger where there's, potentially a life or death situation for a pet, there's a lot of pressure in that. What can we do to create these pockets of ease and just enter into that, space with a little bit more ease, where the stakes are a bit lower. so Yeah. And I, really love the idea of creating pockets of ease.'cause again, it's not the either or, it's either easy or hard. It's it can be hard right now, but what's one thing I can do to make this 1% easier for me? And then if you keep asking that question over time, you are going to move again in that direction that you want to. And I bet when you pause and look back, you're like, holy crap, I forgot that. Like at one point I couldn't even use this word without cringing.

amelia: 57:38

Yes.

Dr. Shona: 57:39

So, the next part, or, the first r is relevance or relatability. And again, it's thinking about. The fact that we all understand things from our, own frame of reference. And sometimes the language that's being used by someone else or, how they're approaching a conversation, again, feels really unfamiliar because it's not from our frame of reference. So sometimes it's really helpful to have things that are Completely outside our, our frame of reference, but it can also be helpful to, to take what we already know and find ways to apply it to what we're trying to learn. And, and an example I'll give for myself was that it's, why my book is, is using vet med as the reference or as the lens for building self-awareness.'cause I was in this stage where I was like, Hey, I'm studying like human behavior, communication, how to be a good leader, how to be a good doctor, all of these things. And at the root of it is it always circles back to to you or yourself as the individual, but nothing that they're saying really lands with me. It doesn't resonate. And it wasn't until I actually was like, wait a second, I'm ignoring all of these signs in myself. But if I was a pet, if I was an animal that walked into my exam room, would I say, you're fine. Or would I say, Yep. you don't need to worry about that. And, the answer was definitely no. But I needed that. I needed to layer on my filter of vet medicine to make it more comfortable for me to think about myself and to, to look at my responsibility and how I show up and how that leads to empowerment. And, so that last r the reason this is again, where it's very specific to you. What's your motivation? What's the story behind your motivation and what's, what's the reason this Is important to you? So again, with with financial conversations, if I'm on a vet team, it might be like, well, hopefully it's not that I'm just being forced to do something. I'm choosing to take ownership of the fact that, hey, I'm struggling Right now with financial conversations. It's causing me a lot of stress. Or I'm realizing that it's creating conflict when I talk to pet parents about it. I can keep doing it as is and continue to get frustrated or disappointed or upset or angry or whatever else feeling, you know, comes into play. Or I can start to try and do things just a little bit differently. Why does this matter to me? What's the reason that I'm choosing to do this? And so remembering why you know you care And why you are doing this uncomfortable thing that can really help when things are uncomfortable or when things get hard. And the cool thing is that by increasing FEARR, so the acronym. You slowly decrease your own fear or the feeling of fear. And over time, that thing that's really unfamiliar and un uncomfortable, it's no longer going to be as uncomfortable

amelia: 1:00:51

Yeah.

Dr. Shona: 1:00:51

So that's that's my mid-length overview. It's not quite as long as the chapters in the book, but it's also not super short.

amelia: 1:00:57

Okay. Yeah, no, that's a great overview and so I'm thinking if we go over a few examples and really put that into practice. So one that I can think of is like the veterinarian or vet staff who are feeling so frustrated with clients and they're finding all of these conversations, like they feel like maybe they go in and go over an estimate and the client is frustrating or complaining that of the expenses and they just are like over it.. where would you recommend that they start? What are some things they can do and put these into practice? That's exactly what we are going to dive into in part two. So we've covered a lot. We're gonna pause here, give you some time to let all that we talked about to really sink in to digest that, and next week I'll be posting part two, where we dive into specific strategies and really cool exercises that you can do individually, or that can be done as a team to decrease fear around that F word finances. Now if you're listening to this conversation and you are starting to feel inspired or excited about how you can put these into practice and you're ready to use the current challenges in Vet Med or in your life as an opportunity to shift out of survival and to do things different, to really stand out and lead by example and to redefine success. That is what my alliance success reboot coaching program and community is all about. This is where we are combining individual deep healing and unblocking physically, mentally, and emotionally, while also bringing together an inclusive forward thinking community of kind driven humans who are ready to do things differently. This is your room for exponential growth with energy and space to breathe, so you can learn more about that at https://www.lifeboost.today/aligned-success-reboot. I'll also leave it in the show notes. Sending you so much love, positive vibes and energy, and I'll see you next week for part two.